Post details: MMP REFERENDUM

09/10/07

Permalink 11:44:14 am, by Jody Email , 1439 words, 886 views   English (CA)
Categories: Misc. Stuff

MMP REFERENDUM

In 29 days, voters in Ontario will have a choice to make with regard to a recommendation made by a panel of average citizens, selected at random (known as the Citizens Assembly). These folks studied our current system of selecting government and then voted 92% in favour of implementing Mixed Member Proportional voting system.

On Election Day, October 10th, 2007 each voter in Ontario will be given the opportunity to vote yes or no to MMP. If MMP passes, it will bring significant change to Ontario politics. MMP would reduce the number of ridings from the current 107 to 90, with MPPS using the systems that we’ve always used. Then, another 39 MMP seats will be added, expanding the Legislature to 129 MPPs.

The Coalition feels that this system would reduce the likelihood of majority governments and give small parties a realistic shot at seats in the House.

This is important stuff. How often do we have our government ASK US?

After deciding to introduce this “referendum”, Elections Canada hired Grey Canada (an ad agency) to educate Ontario voters about MMP. Rick Kemp, the executive creative director at Grey Canada has said, “Electoral reform is really important. But engaging people and getting them to embrace it is another matter."

Uh huh.

Come On! SERIOUSLY, this is the first provincial referendum since the 1924 vote that extended prohibition another three years.

Now, we have to try to get past the “jargon” the MMP, MPPs and such…

Our current system is called “Single Member Plurality”- or First-Past-The-Post (FPTP). One of the problems with this system is that a party may win more seats than overall votes and still be called a “majority” government. Such governments will claim a “mandate from the people” (sort of a winner-take-all situation) and then have the power to enact laws that are not supported by the majority of the citizens.

Those in favour of MMP point to the most recent Provincial election, in which the current government won 70% of the seats while receiving only 46% of the popular vote. In Toronto (largest city in Ontario and in Canada) there is no elected Progressive Conservative MPP- although they won 225,000 votes in the city. In the Federal election the PC party received 400,000+ votes in Toronto but no elected MP representing Toronto. In other words, the PC caucus does not have a singe voice representing Toronto.

Supporters believe this is an unfair geographic representation and could be part of the reason that some 40% of eligible Ontarians do not bother to cast a vote.

Under the proposed model (a form of MMP), the Ontario legislature will consist of 129 seats. In each electoral district, local constituency races will provide voters with one vote would be used to elect a 'Local Member' using a First-Past-the-Post system. The candidate with the most votes in an electoral district wins. This accounts for 90 seats. (This is much like our current system.)

A difference is, that the remaining 39 seats will be proportional or list seats and will be used to top up parties' seat totals so that the proportion of seats that each party gets corresponds to the proportion of votes that each party gets in the party vote. Each party would provide “list MPs” assigned to represent the party. These MPS would be elected via the “party votes”. These “list members” would fill the “top up seats” and be accountable to the people who elected them.

Please note: The identity of the list candidates and the way they were created; would be available to the public throughout an election campaign.

In order to facilitate this option, at election time, the eligible citizen voter would be given two votes-

One for a local member (as we have always done)
and
One for the party of our choice.

It is believed that the flexibility created by allowing these two votes will provide the electorate with strong local representation and produce fairer election results.

Votes for parties will be used to determine the number of 'List Members' each party gets. If a political party is entitled to more seats than it won locally, 'List Members' are elected to make up the difference. 'List Members' can only be elected from a political party that received more than 3% of these votes. This is where the “proportional representation” part comes in, because, in the end a political party’s overall share of seats will be roughly equal to its share of the total votes for parties in the province.

It is expected that each party will be making an effort to create a well-balanced list and this creates a new route into politics for under-represented groups, including women. It's generally held that the presence of more women and minorities in the legislature will create a positive feedback loop where the more women, for instance, who are in politics, the more attractive politics will become for women.

The member vote allows the voter to choose the individual they would like to have representing their district- regardless of the party they represent. A voter will not have to vote for a candidate they dislike in order to elect the party of their choice, and vice versa. Liberals and Tories are split on their decision about MMP, but supposedly smaller parties are supporting the system- it would provide them a better chance at winning seats in the Legislature if they do not win a riding outright.

The political party with the largest number of seats in the legislature, including ‘Local Members’ and ‘List Members’, is asked to form a government.

Supporters of MMP suggest that this will result in a legislature that more closely reflects the diversity of the province and more accurately reflects the decision of the electorate. They also view it as a system that will instigate a more cooperative, coalition style of government AND re-ignite the interest of the electorate.
The Citizens Coalition cited MMP as a system that would see that each Ontarian is still served by a local representative who knows and likely lives in their riding.

Additionally, MMP has been credited with reducing partisanship and promoting cooperation between political parties. This is because MMP reduces the likelihood of strong majority governments and in turn, this creates an incentive for politicians to 'get along' because they are more likely to need each other's support to pass legislation. Here, you would see a political environment in which parties must enter into coalitions if they are to command the confidence of the House and form a government.

Countries like New Zealand (using MMP since 1996) and Germany (using MMP since 1949) have a much higher turnout of eligible voters for their elections. Scottish and Welsh assemblies have also used a Mixed Member Proportional system, since 1999.

Critics of MMP say that in order to achieve the single goal of proportionality, the proposed MMP system shifts power from the local voter in ridings across Ontario to the power brokers at Queens Park. They feel that the introduction of a list system could concentrate power in the hands of the party leader. In such a case, politicians might compete with each other for a favourable slot on their party's list.

Really? That doesn’t happen now?

And… remember how the supporters of MMP talked about how our current system results in unfair geographic representation?

The Critics point out that Ontario is a huge geographic area with a very unevenly distributed population. Of Ontario's total population of about 12 million people, over 5 million live in the GTA. If you include all of the major urban centres of Ontario outside of the GTA into that, you have about 60-70% of Ontario's population living in urban areas which geographically encompass, say, 25% of the province. This means that some 30% of the population inhabits the remaining, oh, about 75% of the province.

This smaller number of people who inhabit the majority of geography in the province have much different concerns than those who live in the major urban centres. Critics of MMP agree that even under FPTP, rural voters struggle for a voice, however under MMP with 39 seats that will be determined by the entire province- the rural and northern voters will have a smaller possibility of having regional representation.

WOWZER, it gets better all the time.

I guess the only solution is to really do some homework. There are some super videos online and sites, reflecting both sides of the argument. Try: www.nommp.ca. or www.voteformmp.ca or www.yourbigdecision.ca or just “google” it!

The MMP proposal must be approved by a "super majority" referendum YES of 60 per cent of the votes cast across Ontario and by at least 50 per cent of the voters in 64 of the 107 ridings.

Comments:

Comment from: Gary [Visitor] Email
Excellent post. If only all bloggers and voters were as informed as you!

For the critics who think that MMP gives too much power to the backroom bosses, they might be asked why the backroom bosses and operators are opposed to MMP?
PermalinkPermalink 09/10/07 @ 18:51
Comment from: Jody [Member] Email · http://www.getrealinontario.com/
This is what my partner, Fabian, had
to say about MMP:

"Less populated areas have less voters and therefore, fewer votes. MMP seems to mean that there will be more seats attributed to the largest number of votes, which will obviously come from the GTA and Ottawa and other major centres. Where does this leave rural Ontario? I don’t understand how this could be fair. Urban dwellers and country peoples have very different needs. MMP looks like it would be a great benefit to the city folk. Whichever party kisses up to the voters in big centres will win. Looks like that’s where elections will be won… where does it leave us country folks?"

Bear in mind, Fabian is a self-confessed red-neck.

PermalinkPermalink 09/10/07 @ 20:41
Comment from: Gary [Visitor] Email
Fabian's views raise a couple of issues. First, about MMP. It has the potential to improve representation for all voters. If voters of a party in a region of the province have no MPPs, as is the case with all three parties - e.g. Conservatives in Toronto or the north, NDP in Eastern Ontario - parties can address that by ensuring that candidates from those areas are nominated and placed higher up on the list.

Having some Northerners or other rural Ontarians placed prominently on a parties list is not going to turn off urban voters. Of course, just like now, it will be up to the parties to nominate their candidates.

The second point, of course, is that while there are special needs in all parts of the province - not just urban areas - why should the majority of voters be denied representation for living in urban areas?
PermalinkPermalink 09/11/07 @ 00:29
Comment from: Wayne Smith [Visitor] Email · http://voteformmp.ca/blog/44
Under MMP, every vote will count, no matter where you vote or how you vote. Every party will elect MPPs in every region, and every voter will have not just one MPP, but MPPs from every party. Every voter and every region will have stronger representation.

The idea that MMP is somehow bad for rural areas is bafflegab. Don't fall for it.

Ditto with the idea that MMP will somehow give power to party bosses. They've already got it. MMP will give power to voters by giving every voter a party vote that actually helps to elect someone, every time.

This will give voters the power to hold political parties accountable. The end of phony majority governments will also mean that government is truly accountable to Parliament.

Vote for MMP on October 10.
PermalinkPermalink 09/11/07 @ 06:01
Comment from: Paul McKeever, Leader, Freedom Party of Ontario [Visitor] Email · http://www.freedomparty.on.ca
A correction: Freedom Party is on the record as NOT supporting the adoption of the MMP.

Regards,

Paul McKeever
Leader, Freedom Party of Ontario
PermalinkPermalink 09/11/07 @ 11:20
Comment from: Jody [Member] Email · http://www.getrealinontario.com/
I apologize, Paul, and have amended my posting.
PermalinkPermalink 09/11/07 @ 11:29
Comment from: Richard Lung [Visitor] Email · http://www.voting.ukscientists.com
Re: *The political party with the largest number of seats... is asked to form a government.*
This is a consequence of the inadequate X-vote, instead of a preference vote for individual representatives perhaps across party lines, by which voters, not politicians, can decide the coalition.
Failure to preferentially reform the vote degrades representative democracy to partisan patronage in a proportional system.
PermalinkPermalink 09/11/07 @ 16:19
Comment from: George Alexander [Visitor] Email
Under MMP Any of the major political parties may present a stellar list of candidates to the voter, and it maybe overwhelming be accepted . In 2003 over two million voters voted for the Liberals, -However - if the percentage of seats won in the ridings is equal to or in excess of the percentage of seats won by the party vote. The party does not receive any of the 39 seats and the over two million votes are wasted. All votes count?
PermalinkPermalink 09/20/07 @ 13:57
Comment from: discobbles [Visitor] Email
I have a problem with our current electoral system: Our vote has no meaning.

I say it has no meaning because our vote nominally asks the question "who do you want representing your riding?" not the question "Which party platform or party leader do you prefer?" Yet Cabinet and
pundits have interpreted, with good reason, the vote as answering the second question. A statement with two meanings has no meaning at all. Any ballot system with two questions (two votes) is better
than the current one... probably.

This 2007 MMP proposal (Mixed Member Proportional) does just that: It will ask the two right questions. But it has a big flaw: Compensation. Compensation overvalues the party and blurs the responsibilities of MPPs (Members of Provincial Parliament). An
example using the current party names, should a conservative citizen in a Liberal riding go to the Liberal winner of the riding or a Conservative MPP at large?

For me to argue that we should vote for the current FPTP system over the 2007 MMP because we can do better is disingenuous. We don’t know if the proposal will be up for review. So now I have to chose what is more important to me: 1) clarity of intent provided by MMP or 2) clarity of responsibilities of the current FPTP.
PermalinkPermalink 10/06/07 @ 11:29
Comment from: Paul Jeffery [Visitor] Email · http://Germany
What happened with the referendum?
They didn't publish that result in The International Herald Tribune...
As a matter of fact, they hardly knew that Canada existed until the Canadian dollar was suddenly worth more than the US.
PermalinkPermalink 10/28/07 @ 10:59
Comment from: Jody [Member] Email · http://www.getrealinontario.com/
Hi Paul,

It was defeated... I think it was a
very confusing concept for many and
I also believe that change is so
rampant an issue in this world that
a lot of us dig our heels in, when given
the opportunity!

Other, more educated folks, may have
other insight.

Jody
PermalinkPermalink 12/21/07 @ 12:51

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Welcome and thanks for visiting the blog of Jody Didier, real estate agent, mom, and general all around Bancroftian! This blog contains her thoughts on being a real estate agent, real estate information in general, and occasional rants and raves about life in general...

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