Latest Comments

Joe Briar

In response to: Straight Talk About Living in Rural Ontario

Joe Briar [Visitor]

I live on a 50 acres of well forested land. I had to make a fence out of stumps and other material to keep would be wood harvesters from cutting wood from my land . Posted signs like
Only invited guests may proceed all others refrain from trespassing Thank You .
This works well and havent been bothered by anyone so far . Get along great with all my neighbours . We look after each other and help out in time of need . I provide work for free and get my snow plowed from from entrance to house . Offer breakfast and coffee to same .
Be prepared to ask certain persons who ignore your signs too leave. I have large Kangal dogs and that helps them move back out . I have laminated windows and steel framed security doors to keep any intruder from breaking in when I am out doing errands . Also a couple night day cameras hidden from view . I am completely off the grid. No need for solar. A small generator keeps by lead acid batteries fully charged. ( they do not freeze ) .
Just a run down about living rural and in the bush. Live in self built 12x12 cedar cabin.
Bring yourself but dont bother your neighbours with your two cents worth of nothing. Keep it simple, to yourself and be a good egg.
Love this peaceful life.
Joe Briar friend to all .

 Permalink 07/24/17 @ 14:12

In response to: PROPERTY RIGHTS- what every Buyer should know

kathy [Visitor]

We bought property about 2 years ago on an all private Lake. There are a lot of trees on the shore line and we would like to remove some of them to gain a better view of the lake from our house. Who do I contact in order to get permission to do this. Do you have to pay to get permits so we can do this. Also the shore line is in very rough shape how can I get permission to fix it.

Hi Kathy,

The Federation of Ontario Cottagers’ Associations put out a great booklet in 2016 with loads of information that will better answer your questions… you can find it online at:

the bottom line is you should contact the Ministry of Natural Resources and consult the Fisheries & Oceans folks… you can check their website at for more information.

I hope this is of help.


 Permalink 07/18/17 @ 08:17

In response to: Ghost Towns Around Bancroft & Barry's Bay

Richard [Visitor]

A friend of mine (now deceased) was from Queenboro and often spoke about the Orange Lodge and what good times they would have travelling around to other lodges in the area. I just drove through Queenboro this past week and the Orange Hall still stands (now a House). Is there any info on the number of members they would have had and the different ghost towns. Perhaps there was a masonic hall as well?

Hi Richard,

Originally Queensboro was a First Nations village known as Cooksokie… the name was changed when they requested a post office and the government wanted an English name… but I digress… Apparently, Queensborough’s Loyal Orange Lodge (number 437) was built in 1862 and was used regularly until the 1980s. There is a bit of information on the that has some of the reports (for various years) of annual meetings. Some of the members from Queensboro are listed in these reports. For instance in 1883, Donald McKinnon, Arch Thompson, John Nichol, F.J. Thompson, John Wiggens, J.G. McCaw, James Moore, Charles Thompson, Isaac Trotter and John Moore are named. I’ve not been able to find any information about a Masonic Temple in Queensboro.

Best regards, Jody

 Permalink 07/14/17 @ 22:31

In response to: Encroachments

Dov [Visitor]

My neighbour has clearly encroached on my land. He admits this and the official surveys confirm that he has. We are in the process of selling him the 3 acres of encroachment. Can I charge him rent for the time he was using my 3 acres and put up a 3 car garage? How would rent be calculated?

Hi There… In regards to your question about charging rent… I would think it best to take that into consideration when you agree on a price to sell them this piece of property. I don’t think you can charge rent if you didn’t get an agreement in writing ahead… but that is a question for a lawyer.

Best of luck, Jody.

From: Dov
To: Jody
Sent: Friday, July 14, 2017 10:23 PM
Subject: Re: encroaching neighbour

But how could I have gotten an agreement in advance if i didn’t know until April of this year that he was encroaching for 15 years.

To: Dov


I understand you didn’t know he was on your property, he obviously didn’t realize it either… as I said in my last email, you should check with your lawyer but I don’t think he has to pay you rent if there was no agreement in place. In a way you are recovering costs for those 15 years… if you look at it this way:

if he would have bought the property from you 15 years ago, before he built the garage, the price of the property would be much less than it is today… so in some ways that makes up for your “rent".

Remember, you didn’t notice that he was on your property and using it for 15 years… some might argue that he has ownership already, by way of squatter’s rights… and in that case, he wouldn’t have to pay you one cent. I know this is upsetting for you, it does happen more often than you might imagine and you are fortunate that he is willing to purchase the property from you.


 Permalink 07/14/17 @ 18:46
Janice freund

In response to: PROPERTY RIGHTS- what every Buyer should know

Janice freund [Visitor]

My new neighbour has built a kayak stand on the road allowance in front of my property. Since I do not own the road allowance, can I ask them to remove it. I fear they (or worse still their renters) will next be using my beach as they do not have one.

Hi Janice,

This is something you should take up with the Township. Perhaps you can purchase the shoreline, for a nominal fee.


 Permalink 07/09/17 @ 19:38

In response to: PROPERTY RIGHTS- what every Buyer should know

George [Visitor]

I applied to the local Conservation Authority and received a permit to repair the eroding shoreline The original shoreline slope was approximately at slope of 2:1. The slope length from the bottom toe to the shoreline top is approximately 12.5 feet at the shoreline height of 6 feet. I assume that the shoreline slope is owned by the Crown?
Local Conservation Authority imposed by the issued permit a shallower slope of 4:1 and that means a shoreline slope length of approximately 24 feet. In order to achieve this longer shoreline slope the shoreline top needs to be extended approximately 12 feet into the land. This means I have to give up approximately 12 feet of land along the shoreline.
1. Do Conservation Authority have legal authority to impose such conditions?
Also, I do not have enough existing stone slabs, rocks or boulders to protect the shoreline from wash outs and erosion. The Conservation Authority imposed that a new material is not permitted. My shoreline situation will actually considerably worsen instead of being resolved. There are no advantages to a shallower slope as the shoreline height remains the same and the high-water level reaches the top of the shoreline in any shoreline slope.
2. Is this a confiscation of land? Do I have a right to be compensated?
3. If new material is not allowed to protect the extended shoreline slope and further shoreline erosion occurs, resulting in a loss of property, can I sue the CA for damages?

Hi George,

Conservation Authorities have a lot of clout. You would be best to go and check with the local municipality to ask for their advice.


 Permalink 07/08/17 @ 18:05
jenny-lynn robichaud

In response to: Ghost Towns Around Bancroft & Barry's Bay

jenny-lynn robichaud [Visitor]

I am a lifetime resident of Haliburton county.. The church in Gelert was torn down this year (2017) it’s now just an empty lot.. there is also a small area in Maple Lake with a lot of history that people have long forgot. It’s on Hwy 118 between Stanhope and Carnarvon.. there is the old schoolhouse barn and the old post office.. Also the township of Algonquin Highlands (Stanhope) offers a lot of history an the museum is a stones throw away..

 Permalink 07/06/17 @ 12:26
kathy simpson

In response to: PROPERTY RIGHTS- what every Buyer should know

kathy simpson [Visitor]

at our cottage we have a deeded right a way to the water across the road. several other cottage owners have the same deeded right a way. the deeded property is about 8 ft wide and goes from road down to lake front. there has been several docks built at the end of this 8′ stretch. the property owner to the right of the 8′ stretch is complaining about the number of docks some of which run in front of his property but are accessed from the ROW edge. no dock is attached to his waterfront property. Does this property owner have the right to make us move our docks and is there a law about how far out into the water a dock can run? When land owner many years ago divided his property into lots all property owners on back side of road were given the same ROW on their deeds. Possibly 12 owners could need dock space in the future. Are there laws on quantity of docks at end of ROW’s. Appreciate any input you may have.


You should check with your local municipality to see if they have regulations about the length of docks and check with the Ministry of Natural Resources, too. It sounds a little crazy and pretty much impossible to have 12 people all wanting their own dock space on an 8′ strip of property. This is not a good situation. I strongly suggest that you twelve need to get organized and get a legal opinion about how best to satisfy all of your individual needs, fairly.


 Permalink 07/03/17 @ 18:04
Carol Mielke

In response to: Margaret Parliament

Carol Mielke [Visitor]

I am proud to read the History of Margaret Parliament who was married to James Amit Morden 1762-1840

 Permalink 06/27/17 @ 21:46

In response to: Ghost Towns Around Bancroft & Barry's Bay

Christine [Visitor]


Thank-you for your research, very cool. Looking forward to your next articles. (ie L’amable) :).
Now I know what we can do when we go visit my Family next time…Road trip.
Keep up the great informative work! (Note: Anyone have any real ghost stories of these areas?)

 Permalink 06/25/17 @ 12:39

In response to: PROPERTY RIGHTS- what every Buyer should know

Bob [Visitor]

I’m looking at purchasing a piece of land where mining and surface rights are included but timber rights are not. Do I need permission to clear a road and area for a cabin and if so from whom and what is the cost?

Hi Bob,

I am assuming that the Crown holds the timber rights… and usually that is only on pine. Check with the Ministry for specific information but, generally, you are permitted to clear an area for a laneway, cabin, septic, etc.


 Permalink 06/13/17 @ 05:59
Michael Baril

In response to: PROPERTY RIGHTS- what every Buyer should know

Michael Baril [Visitor]

My Wife and i purchased a lot with a 40ft. wide deeded right of way to the St. Lawrence river. In 2003 we got permission from the owner to construct a dock where we could tie up our boat and swim from and i agreed to maintain the property. Last year the owner of the right of way changed hands. The new owner was told by the previous owner that they had given us permission to build the dock. The new owner says that he owns the dock and wants us to sign a agreement with restrictions to us the dock. Do we have any rights as we have used and maintained the land for 20 years and had the dock for 15

Hi Michael,

In our minds the key here is deeded right of way. It doesn’t sound like the new owner can ask you to sign any new agreements or restrict use of your dock… but I would check this out with your lawyer.


 Permalink 06/04/17 @ 13:10

In response to: PROPERTY RIGHTS- what every Buyer should know

Terry [Visitor]

I own a waterfront property on Georgian Bay. The deed (and that of my neighbours) extends to the “High Water Mark 1938″ and show approx. 50′ shoreline/waterfront for my property. Since that time, the water level has dropped considerably exposing approx. 50 Meters of new beach. Since the sides of my property are not parallel and converge toward the bay such that if extended towards the bay and into the new beach, my side property boundaries would meet each other (producing a pie shaped lot) even before the new waterfront or shoreline. Does this mean I no longer have waterfront footage? Does it all belong to my neighbours to the left and right of me and not to me? Do I have any rights to the shoreline?

Hi Terry,

We can’t see that you can be prevented from using the shoreline/waterfront…

but this is an interesting question. Has anyone tried to prevent you from using

the shoreline? How long have you owned it? What does the municipality say?

This is likely something best answered by a legal expert. We’d love to hear

what you discover!


 Permalink 05/16/17 @ 01:54
Andrea in Markham

In response to: Assessed Value VS Selling Price

Andrea in Markham [Visitor]


I truly enjoy your insightful blog, we are always wondering if we buy a house at purchase price of e.g. 1,000000, and the house is currently accessed to be $500000 by the Mpac. When I become the new owner, will the municipality adjust my property tax to $1M or not?

Appreciate your comments?


Hi Andrea:

Yes, the taxes will be adjusted, you can call the township and ask for their

mill rate. You multiply the purchase price by the mill rate to determine what the taxes

will be.

Since 2003, properties must now be reassessed annually using Current Value. The

Assessment Act definition of Current Value is “in relation to land, the amount of money

the fee simple, if unencumbered, would realize if sold at arm’s length by a willing seller

to a willing buyer”.


 Permalink 05/10/17 @ 19:50

In response to: PROPERTY RIGHTS- what every Buyer should know

Kevin [Visitor]

I own a property on a dead end road. My house is the second last house on the road, and technically the “road” where my driveway exits is on my neighbours property. He technically owns the small area right in front and it looks more like a road than his driveway, as his driveway exits onto it as well. The road is dirt, and barely wide enough for 2 cars to get by, but because we are the only traffic it was never an issue. Lately though he has taken to parking at the end of my driveway, leaving us only room to squeeze our vehicles out, and it is a squeeze. My wife has on several occasions had to ask him to move so that she could get in or out, which is frustrating when she has a 3 year old in the back, and she has to leave her in the car to find our neighbour to have his car moved. We strongly feel that he is doing this because we no longer get along. While it is technically his property, it is a right of way as well because there is no other way for us to get to our house. The house is in Simcoe County in Ontario. Thank you

Hi Kevin… You haven’t said how long you’ve owned the property and been using the road… which may make a difference. It sounds like your driveway is encroaching on the neighbour’s property… did you purchase title insurance when you bought? Is there anything on the deed that speaks to a right-of-way? It also sounds like you may be on a private road… do you know who owns the road?
All of this said, Fabian and I feel that you are best to have a chat with a lawyer and get some expert advice.


 Permalink 05/08/17 @ 18:45

In response to: PROPERTY RIGHTS- what every Buyer should know

Arlene [Visitor]

We purchased a house in the Kawarthas which is not on the water. Homeowners pay a fee to have the private/unassumed circular road plowed/maintained. There is a common area in the centre and a common launch access point to Buckhorn Lake. The houses that aren’t on the water each have a deeded 15′ strip of waterfront (some have docks). The question is, can we put a structure on our 15′ waterfront? (I’m talking a gazebo, maybe a deck at the edge of the water). I’ve been told “probably not” but I don’t know why. Also, owners park in the centre when they feel like it. The cottages on each side of the launch access have taken over a lot of the supposed common area. There doesn’t seem to be a corporation or committee that creates or polices, i.e. who created the rules?

Hi Arlene,

There are situations where a developer has surveyed several lots that share waterfront lot. In some cases this waterfront lot is communally owned and in other cases, is surveyed into pieces that are registered along with the deeds to the main properties. Without seeing your deed, it would be hard to know which is the case. Either way, it is most unlikely that a permanent structure would be permitted close to a lake or river. You should check with the municipality to see if they have regulations, the Ministry of Natural Resources may have some, as well. If the 15′ strips are part of your deed, there may not need be a committee that regulates anything, it would fall under government regulation (municipality, oceans & fisheries, Ministry of Natural Resources, etc.).

You haven’t mentioned if your portion of the road is on your deed or a separate piece over which you have a right-of-way. If that is the case, it might be a separate piece that never got registered or it could be registered to a private owner. We have seen older developments where the road has not been built up to municipal standards and will never be assumed. In these cases, private road maintenance is often casually handled by one of the residents- and can become an issue if major improvements are ever required. I would be surprised if your Realtor, and/or lawyer, didn’t mention this when you purchased. If the road isn’t part of your deed, check with the municipality to find out who owns it.

Once you know who owns both of these commonly used pieces you can begin to research any organized community group that might have formalized regulations with regard to their usage. I hope this is of help.

Good luck!


 Permalink 05/03/17 @ 15:20

In response to: PROPERTY RIGHTS- what every Buyer should know

Joan [Visitor]

We have a few family members who collectively own an island in northern Ontario. It is accessed by boat, however can be accessed down the Escarpment and over a foot bridge. Some of the family members want to purchase the shore allowance, some don’t. What would be the main reason for wanting to have it? Would our taxes go up? Would the value of the cottage/land go up for the cost of the shoreline? It is not winter access, no running water, septic etc. Is this really worth it?

Hi Joan,

The main reason people want to have the shore allowance is because some people just feel better owning it. You would have to check with your local municipal authorities to determine if the taxes would go up after it was purchased.

Shore allowance is something that only an experienced waterfront owner or buyer generally thinks about. It is something we frequently have to explain to prospective buyers and it is something that should be noted in MLS listing data entry. In my experience, shore allowances are very common and have little, if any influence on market value.

The shoreline road allowance was created on most waterfront properties in Ontario after 1850 to allow public access to the shore from navigable waterways- for emergency purposes. It was created at a time when there weren’t proper roads in most of cottage country and the waterways were a major form of travel.

Savvy waterfront buyers might ask- “is the shore allowance owned?” and it’s always nicer to be able to answer yes… so some might argue it helps the property to be more saleable.

What is interesting, is the shore allowances are attached to the high water mark and often we run into situations where the lakes have increased in volume and the shore allowance is currently out in the lake… in other cases, cottages or other structures were built right on the shore allowance, before there were regulations about set backs.

The bottom line is that the shoreline is yours to use, as you will, as owner of the adjacent property. You would likely have to prove you own the shoreline before applying for a minor variance to be able to apply for a permit for the construction of a structure that would be located on the 66′ shore road allowance- AND you would have to abide by the strict guidelines set out by the Ministry of Natural Resources. Your municipality may have particular regulations, as well. Generally, docks are permitted, provided they do not interfere with the fish habitat.

When you ask if it’s really worth it- it comes down to your personal opinion.

I hope this is of some help,


 Permalink 04/19/17 @ 16:04
Carla Catherwood

In response to: Assessed Value VS Selling Price

Carla Catherwood [Visitor]

Own a mobile in mobile home park. Park property standards and bylaws not being enforced park quality gone down greatly . How will this effect assessment and market value to put home up for sale.
Thanks for any advice.

Hi Carla,

In answer to your question about the mobile home that you own in the mobile park, it’s difficult to determine how this situation will affect the property assessment without knowing if you own or lease the lot. I’m sure you can appreciate that most park buyers want to protect their investment and hope for some increase in value, over time. They look for assurance that the common areas are well maintained, shared water and or sewage systems are monitored and that a reasonable set of rules is enforced.

Conditions like the ones that you have described will have a negative effect on market value (meaning what an informed buyer will pay for the place, in a fair and open market) and it is likely to take longer to find a buyer.

I hope this is of some help,


 Permalink 04/05/17 @ 18:09

In response to: P.S. To Ghost Towns around Bancroft & Barry's Bay

Alice [Visitor]

I love all the history in this report. wow.

 Permalink 03/21/17 @ 03:59

In response to: PROPERTY RIGHTS- what every Buyer should know

Jody [Member]

I received this message by email March 12, 2017:

Hi Jody,

Has there been any other precedents in Ontario where the government, automatically merged two 100′ waterfront lots (same owner) to one 200′ lot? I would like to begin the process to restore them back to the original 100′ lots and solve a zoning issue that now has two residences on a single lot. I am assuming there will be many roadblocks and am sure many others have had this happen to their properties. Hoping to find some success stories. Rob

My response:

Hi Rob,

It is very common for adjacent vacant properties to merge… but I can’t remember ever hearing about this happening with two pieces that have both been built upon. With limited information I would only be speculating as to what happened here, but I sense there has been some sort of mix up.

I’d love to have the county in which the properties are located and the PIN numbers from the tax bills or addresses, so that I could look them up in the system to see how they’re zoned.

You mention that you would like to “begin” the process to restore their separateness… I would start with approaching the municipality for an explanation.

I’d be pleased if you would keep me in the loop with your progress and I’ll help in any way that I can.


 Permalink 03/12/17 @ 15:23
betty brennan

In response to: Ghost Towns Around Bancroft & Barry's Bay

betty brennan [Visitor]

this is very interesting and would like to know more

 Permalink 03/07/17 @ 20:02
Lori Beavis

In response to: Ghost Towns Around Bancroft & Barry's Bay

Lori Beavis [Visitor]

An interesting blog on all the towns and villages through parts of Ontario that I have travelled through or heard of throughout my life. I have to say that I find it disturbing that the only “mention” of the Anishinaabeg who were the First Peoples through the territory is in identifying Colonization Road. It would be of value for you to write an acknowledgement statement of the original inhabitants of the land at the beginning of your posting. This can be a simple statement as Acknowledging territory shows recognition of and respect for Aboriginal Peoples. It is recognition of their presence both in the past and the present. Recognition and respect are essential elements of establishing healthy, reciprocal relations and part of the reconciliation process as suggested by the Truth and Reconciliation Commission Report. There are a number of sites on the internet that would be of interest to you and help with crafting a statement - for example: - this is a particularly interesting site as it discusses the move towards acknowledging the original inhabitants of the land in terms of rural and non-rural situations. An important discussion to be having. Please feel free to contact me if you want any help in crafting your statement. thanks

Hi Lori,

Thank you for your comment on my blog entry. I understand your concerns but hope you understand that it was in no way meant to be a definitive list of towns and villages and I would not wish to have anyone believe that I would overlook our first nations people. If you look at some of my other entries, you will see that I have a fondness for our aboriginal culture, as well as personal, genealogical connections.

I would be pleased to feature a guest blog if you would be kind enough to write one for me.

Many thanks,


 Permalink 03/07/17 @ 09:08
Chris Tedford

In response to: Ghost Towns Around Bancroft & Barry's Bay

Chris Tedford [Visitor]

Hi there,

The town of Nephton was not “demolished” as you described. In fact, most of the homes were moved out of town by Tedford House Movers, Pollard the Mover and possibly a couple of other structural movers. I remember as an early teenager working with my father getting some of those homes ready to move. Either way, most of those homes were successfully moved to various locations in the surrounding area and still stand today!

 Permalink 03/06/17 @ 20:29

In response to: Ghost Towns Around Bancroft & Barry's Bay

Amanda [Visitor]

Someone may have already mentioned this, but the location information, or how to get there if you will for both Bannockburn and Eldorado is incorrect. Eldorado is actually the closest of the two to Madoc. Still along highway 62 heading north of Madoc, it actually sits about 13 mins, or 11km north of the village. Bannockburn sits about 18 mins, approx 18kms north of the village of Madoc, and has two roads that lead off towards Cooper and Wolf Lake. The first being Bannockburn Road leading towards Cooper Road, and the other being Wolf Lake Road. Centre Millbridge road, mentioned in relation to Bannockburn actually sits another 5 km or so north of the hamlet in Millbridge, opposite Stoney Settlement Road. Now you can get to Bannockburn Via Wolf Lake Road by heading south of the Cleveland Road and Stoney Settlement intersection. And you can also reach Millbridge by heading up Old Hastings Road North. I’ve lived in this area my whole life and actually grew up on Old Hastings road, where I learned to ride my bike, drive, hunt and fish. Such great history compiled here, keep it up!

Thank you for the correction, Amanda- I have edited the information on the blog entry! Jody

 Permalink 03/05/17 @ 22:14

In response to: Ghost Towns Around Bancroft & Barry's Bay

Michelle [Visitor]

I’m not sure where or when you got your info on Murphy’s Corners. I did notice a date of 2009 at the top of the article. Any how, the original Murphy Homestead burned to the ground in 1981.

Thank you for the information, Michelle! Jody

 Permalink 03/05/17 @ 21:35

In response to: Ghost Towns Around Bancroft & Barry's Bay

Jane [Visitor]

Great read but you left out Madawaska JRBooths headqwarters is still there said to be haunted by his payroll cleark who hanged himself of off one of the timbers in the basement as a young girl I seen an aparition there.The round house where the trains turned around is now long gone to the ages my Mother Katie said she watched the decline of the white Pine as it passed her house forty flatcars as it made its way to Montreal to make the masts for the ships during the Napolean war.There is a map of the town made by Katie Chartrand who remembers the village as three communities we lived in Bonyiville then there was Madawaska and then Dawson .hydro can me in flooded the land we have lots more to ssy about this time Katie isnow ninty five years old she still is a wealth of knowledge and Madawaska has returned to a sleepy town of memories,I raised my chilren Sandy and Angie there in thier early years and they always return many times to take a walk back in time.

Thanks for the great information, Jane!

 Permalink 03/05/17 @ 09:39
martin byrnes

In response to: Ghost Towns Around Bancroft & Barry's Bay

martin byrnes [Visitor]

Great history lesson.I was born and raised in the area near barrys bay area. enjoyed reading about the ottawa valley and north to algonquin

 Permalink 03/04/17 @ 12:53
Marg Thornington

In response to: Ghost Towns Around Bancroft & Barry's Bay

Marg Thornington [Visitor]

Thank you for this delightful article. Loved reading the history of the area. I have been looking for Margaret Gahan Wilson family and her daughter in law was Jennie Hancock.

 Permalink 03/04/17 @ 09:56
john snowdon

In response to: Ghost Towns Around Bancroft & Barry's Bay

john snowdon [Visitor]

I was about 14 years old living on a farm just a short walk from the Craigmont mine.I would take my rifle and hunt partridge and hares on the way,I would collect mineral samples from the tailings and built quite a collection.My grandfather William Tracey worked there ,he lost an eye and wore a patch for life after the accident.It was there that my mother Bridget Elaine Tracey was born on oct8 1920.she passed away last week at 96 years of age.I can still picture the beauty of the surrounding area I enjoyed so much in my youth.

Hi John,

Thank you for sharing your story with us. I love to hear reminiscences and would welcome any other anecdotes you might have about life or the people in the area!


 Permalink 03/03/17 @ 12:50
Joanne Hughey & Wayne Hughey

In response to: Ghost Towns Around Bancroft & Barry's Bay

Joanne Hughey & Wayne Hughey [Visitor]

This is a great read, I really enjoyed it, thank you.
I am looking forward to more.

 Permalink 02/28/17 @ 10:26

In response to: Ghost Towns Around Bancroft & Barry's Bay

Pauline [Visitor]

I grew up in the area of Centerview, Bell Rapids later moving to Purdue. My dad farmed and worked at the mines in Bancroft. My family names are Pritchard/Rose, Cowan/ Dupuis. I think our New Immigrants coming to our country should realize how hard our settlers had it. It is a great article many thanks

 Permalink 02/28/17 @ 09:01
John O'Malley

In response to: In Search of My Roots

John O'Malley [Visitor]

Cool… I first met Marcel in 1972 he was frying shrimp at home in his kitchen. My parents knew Anne and introduced us to Marcel. In 1976 at 16 Marcel hired me out of high school as a cook 2nd general relief cook 3.85 per hour. I loved that man for he treated me not as a boy but as a young man with promise. I watched him retire and sadly did not try to maintain contact with my hero. It’s 40 years later and I have made a successful career in the F&B business and can honestly say thanks to Executive chef Marcel Didier. A truly wonderful man

 Permalink 02/20/17 @ 12:51
Brenda Senft

In response to: Maynooth History 101

Brenda Senft [Visitor]

My great grandparents, the Haryetts, lived in Maynooth in 1905- 1912 period. I have a photo of them standing in front of their home? I could send it if there is interest

 Permalink 02/11/17 @ 23:11

In response to: PROPERTY RIGHTS- what every Buyer should know

jackie [Visitor]

Some years ago, my husband was given 50 acres of property, by his father. He found out later that the land is landlocked. This land is adjacent to Crown land, would we be able to gain access to our property with a right of way through this crown property? If not do you have any suggestions, how we would go about building a road and gaining access. Thanks.

 Permalink 01/21/17 @ 16:50

In response to: Ghost Towns Around Bancroft & Barry's Bay

Laine [Visitor]


Thank you so much, thats so interesting! Yes, Ruby Rickles was my great grandmother, Pearl was my great, great Aunt.
The teacher you mentioned, Millie McKenna taught at the school, which was located on the Rickles property (knows as the Rickles School). She actually boarded with the Rickles family while she was the teacher, and was a big part of the family.

If you don’t mind me asking, how do our get your information? Through a website, or local censuses? I’m just curious, it’s so informative!

Hi Laine,

I use a variety of sources… I love to research!


 Permalink 12/19/16 @ 10:08

In response to: Ghost Towns Around Bancroft & Barry's Bay

Laine [Visitor]

Very informative!

Would you happen to have any information about a small settlement north of Apsley, called Clanricarde?
Or, possibly any information about a family that lived near there? I believe they bought, or rented a plot of land from my family, the Rickles. I am unsure about the exact spelling of their name, but I believe it was Ellie (or possibly Ellies, Elly, or Ellys). The road they lived off of is now Eels Lake Road.

Hi Laine:

I don’t know much about Clanricarde… except that there is a small lake, a creek, a post office and a school so named and it was located in Burleigh, Anstruther, Chandos Municipality.

Eels Lake derives it’s name from “Eels” meaning a subordinate chief of the Chippewas. The Eels for whom the lake is named was a brother of Handsome Jack, after whom nearby Jacks Lake is named.

Clanricarde School was located about a kilometer north of the Trotter’s home. I’m sure you know that Robert Harrison (Bert) Trotter was married to Pearl Rickles and they had 13 children. Nine boys and four girls (Earl, Frank, Sally, Robbie, Ruby, Albert, Max, George, Harriet, Amy, Ward, Sanford and Ernie). Albert was born in 1923 at the family’s home on Trotters Rd, just north of Apsley. Albert drove a tank in WWII. While he was away, his family moved off the homestead, to Smith Township.

A quick look at Births in Peterborough 1911 (Burleigh and Anstruther) shows Gladys Gertrude Elley born on the 17th day of July at Lot 36, Conc 12 Anstruther. Her father is listed as farmer Henry Elly (so obviously one of these surnames is mis-recorded) and her mother as Margret Bullied. The 1911 Census shows that Henry was born in Dec 1876 in Ireland but that he was naturalized in 1886 (so another error somewhere). It also shows children: Alice born 1902, Richard born 1904, Eva born 1907 and Margaret born 1909. The family of John Rickles (of German descent born in Canada) family (wife Lilly who is shown as English, daughters Pearl and Ruby who are shown as German born in Canada ) is the very next entry on the Census which would indicate that they were neighbours. It is interesting to note that Teacher Millie McKenna (Irish) is shown as living with the Rickles family.


 Permalink 12/18/16 @ 22:32

In response to: PROPERTY RIGHTS- what every Buyer should know

Robert [Visitor]

Jody, I am wondering about a situation where you have a large acreage property and own the timber rights only but not the mineral rights. I was told that owning the timber rights on the property, when the mineral rights are reserved, is a very large plus for the property owner in the event a Mining Company, Prospector or other individual own the mineral rights and want to go on the property and do exploration work. Can you share your thoughts on this situation? Thanks

 Permalink 12/05/16 @ 20:44

In response to: Ghost Towns Around Bancroft & Barry's Bay

Kevin [Visitor]


Thanks for the great info. My dad grew up near Cheddar. He and my grandparents lived there from early ’30’s to late 40’s. It was the old Fraser place, as he called it. There are two or three unmarked graves on the property. Sadly, after much unnecessary neglect by the last owner, the roof caved in and the old log house was torn down a few years ago. He went to school down the road. I think it was SS No 7. We used to go back up there a few times a year but after he passed 4 years ago I haven’t been.

Thanks again,

Kevin Nicoll

 Permalink 12/02/16 @ 14:26

In response to: PROPERTY RIGHTS- what every Buyer should know

Nicky [Visitor]

We own a property on an inland lake in Northern Ontario. According to a very old survey done in the 50’s and the MPAC maps it looks like we are the only ones on our side of the lake that doesn’t own to the shore. Our house (previously a cottage) was built in the early 70’s and is only set back about 30 feet from the shore. Since we apparently don’t own right to the water do we still have to pay waterfront property taxes like our waterfront owning neighbours?? Just curious.

Hi Nicky:
Un-owned or Un-opened shorelines are very common. Some people feel better if they purchase the shore allowance, but that is a matter of personal preference.

Shore allowances were created from the high water mark. In some areas, the shore allowance is now underwater. 30′ is pretty close to the shore, even for the 70’s- which makes me wonder if this is the case on your lake. So you might own right to the water… without getting a survey done, you won’t really know. Your home/cottage may or may not encroach on the shore-allowance. If it does, most people considered it compliant, being “grandfathered-in".

Shore allowances don’t change the fact that your property is waterfront. While you don’t actually own it, it isn’t large enough for anyone to build anything on… so it is yours to enjoy and to maintain.

Shore allowances were created to allow mariners, in trouble, to land. This seldom occurs on inland lakes and is, therefore, nothing to worry about.

I hope this is of some help.


 Permalink 11/13/16 @ 16:08

In response to: Assessed Value VS Selling Price

Debi [Visitor]

Thank you! This site was very informative. Our home has had nearly $60,000 in improvements in the past 5 years and our tax assessment (came yesterday) says we are worth $1000 less than 2012. We aren’t planning to move anytime soon so I’m not worried about resale value. Happy for the slight tax break for now.

 Permalink 11/01/16 @ 23:39

In response to: PROPERTY RIGHTS- what every Buyer should know

Rob [Visitor]

Jody, we just purchased a parcel of land that has a small river running through it. I would like to build a small bridge over the river. Am I able to do this so long as I do not disturb the flow of the river? Do I need riprarian rights to do this?

Hi Rob,

There can be many variables here… quite often you are permitted, as long as you don’t mess with the river bottom or the flow. A quick call to the building inspector at the local township will help you discern local regulations.


 Permalink 10/28/16 @ 10:52

In response to: PROPERTY RIGHTS- what every Buyer should know

Jamie [Visitor]

Hi, was hoping if you could answer a few questions on timber rights. I’d like to buy vacant land for a camp/cabin. If timber rights are reserved…
-should I find out who has the rights reserved?
-can they harvest without my consent?
-is being reserved by the crown better for me than if by someone else?
-am I allowed to cut trees to clear a campsite or driveway?
I plan on buying in an unincorporated township if that matters.
thank you

Hi There:

A lawyer and the MNR will help you find out who has the timber rights. They will also guide you to understand the specifics- for instance sometimes the crown has reserved just the pines. If any of the timber rights are owned by the crown you will need the MNR’s permission to harvest trees. If the timber rights aren’t included with your purchase, the right’s holder can come and cut. It really is of no consequence that the township is unincorporated because timber rights are not overseen at the municipal level.

I would suggest you visit the MNR and inquire about the property, it’s also important to have your lawyer conduct a search to find out what rights are included. Remember it’s not just timber rights that can be an issue… there are mineral and mining rights, among others, that can also be an inconvenience.


 Permalink 10/17/16 @ 22:42

In response to: PROPERTY RIGHTS- what every Buyer should know

Jen [Visitor]

I own a lot in Stouffville that is landlocked but it has a road provision. What should I do to have the road opened to access my land for future building?

Thank you in advance.

Hi Jen,

I think you are talking about an unopened road allowance. You would have to speak to the local municipality about that.

 Permalink 10/03/16 @ 10:20
Paule Deneau

In response to: Ghost Towns Around Bancroft & Barry's Bay

Paule Deneau [Visitor]

Speaking of old roads, my Polish fraternal family established a homestead in the 1870’s atop the winding Old Siberia Road. It’s last inhabitant was my great uncle Jack Biernaski, who had a brother named Monsignor Biernaski /Father Pete) to us children. This priest also built the church, school, nuns and priests residences near the edge of Lake Kameniski in Barry’s Bay and was a founding father of the community. I spent most of my youth in this community visiting my grandmother in the village during the ’40’s all the way to the 90’s. While a young girl and living in Toronto, visits to this area were like a visit to a pioneer village. The land being not arable never afforded much income so most people lived very simply. Uncle Jack would drive a horse and buggy into town, or sleighs in winter even in the ’70’s. I knew the village kept to itself and was very closemouthed , insular and of course deeply religious in an old world way. For me this lent an air of being in an old fashioned movie and fed my imagination. I distanced myself from all the religious trappings, but loved the craggy hills, blackened barns and many crumbling old homesteads. The old farm up on Siberia Road was still there as late as the ’80’s and may be there still. It was abandoned intact with my uncles breakfast dishes still on the old pine table in front of the kitchen window and all furniture, horse brasses, harnesses, trundle beds, blankets , spinning wheels, stone jars china and glassware etc . It also stayed in this museum condition for years and occasionally in the early ’70’s I would go up to look around and ask my Dad if I could just take a little souvenir, like an old stone crock…and the idea was unthinkable to him, tantamount to theft! So years later I heard that American tourists drove up and completely cleaned out the farm, incl outbuildings with many buggies, sleighs, farm implements, and hundreds of stoneware, milk pails, scythes, rakes and cow bells. The village is now a tourist hub of sorts. I just wanted to mention the Siberia road because it was an intrinsic part of my family history. My husband & I had a publishing firm at one point and we published an oral history by Joan Finnigan, the noted Ottawa Valley historian where she attempted to include some of the old Polish stories among the predominantly Irish ones and she is the one where I first heard how difficult it was get them to open up. I am now nearly 80, but I want to go for one last look around. I have a photograph of the farmhouse with 3 of my great aunts in Sunday best standing at the entrance @ 1910 or earlier. I will post it if you are interested.

Hi Paule,

Very pleased to receive your communication. Your story is so very interesting! I’m sure regular readers would be pleased to see your photos and hear other stories that you would share.

Best regards,


 Permalink 10/01/16 @ 10:49

In response to: PROPERTY RIGHTS- what every Buyer should know

Jody [Visitor]

Hi Rob,

In answer to your question about a cottage built close to the un-owned shore allowance. This is quite a common occurrence, especially with cottages built in 50s & 60s. Some people feel more comfortable when they own the shore allowance, however, it isn’t really necessary because you have the right to use and enjoy it, regardless. In many cases, the shore allowance pertains to a high water mark which often means the shore allowance is somewhere out in front, under water now.

Most municipalities “grandfather” older builds and do not disrupt the location of the cottages, even when minimum set backs have changed. If this occurs, you may not be permitted to add onto the existing cottage or tear it down and rebuild… you would likely have to work with the existing footprint.

I hope this answer is of some help.

 Permalink 09/26/16 @ 13:13

In response to: PROPERTY RIGHTS- what every Buyer should know

Rob [Visitor]

We are considering purchasing a cottage in Haliburton area (Dysart et al) which is built very close to the water on SRA that is not owned. Could the municipality demand that this cottage be removed? (It was probably built in the 50’s or 60’s) If I purchased the SRA, what implications would this have? The setback is probably only 20-30 ft from the water and there is a road behind the cottage with the bulk of the land being behind the road.

 Permalink 09/26/16 @ 11:25

In response to: PROPERTY RIGHTS- what every Buyer should know

Jody [Member]

We live on a road, partially deeded. There are seven of us year round, 6 who are seasonal. Trying to keep this road maintained so it is accessable to emergency vehicles, year round, is quite an endeavor. The owner of the road needs to be contacted each time we want maintenance work done, he does not feel he needs to contribute toward this and insists on being contacted when road work needs done. All the individuals who live here have lots of company, and since we live on a lake, you never know when an emergency may occur.
My question is, who is legally responsible for keeping the road up to emergency standards?
J Cashman

This is a tricky but common issue and it is difficult to answer, especially without seeing how the road is “partially deeded". Unfortunately, most of these private roads weren’t designed for year round use. Un-assumed roads often get most abuse October/November and then in March/April & early May. These are times when seasonal residents are less likely to be visiting their property, so the year round residents are generally the ones who have to handle maintenance.

Many residents on roads like yours have attempted to get their roads assumed by the township but the cost to bring the road up to standard is prohibitive.

I’m not sure if you have a “road committee” organized. This is something that I would highly recommend. This way you could set up maintenance plans and monitor costs. I don’t believe that you could force the seasonal people to pay, but if you are reasonable you might get them to pitch in a fraction of the costs for maintenance.

I’m not sure why the “owner” of the road needs to be notified if there is work, except that it may be due to liability issues. A committee could set up parameters with the road owner so that minor work might be conducted without the rigmarole of having to conduct the owner, leaving formal permissions for something more intensive like tree removal etc.

I hope this information is of help to you.


 Permalink 09/13/16 @ 10:19
Robert Hickey

In response to: Maynooth History 101

Robert Hickey [Visitor]

My father Maurice Hickey was born at McAlpine house

 Permalink 09/06/16 @ 21:21

In response to: PROPERTY RIGHTS- what every Buyer should know

Angela [Visitor]

Hi! We own over 2000 feet of frontage on a small lake . Our property consists of over 4 acres and has a deeded access at the back that follows the full length of our property. Do we require OMB approval to severe into two lots or is this solely at the discretion of our Municiple government? Thanks

Hi Angela,

You have to have the approvals… it sounds like your property may be wide and narrow which may be an issue to ensure set backs for septic systems, etc. You should start the process with the municipal authorities. It is not a speedy process.


 Permalink 08/28/16 @ 20:24
John D. Stroud

In response to: Ghost Towns Around Bancroft & Barry's Bay

John D. Stroud [Visitor]

You don,t mention Gooderham or Irondale:: Irondale maybe tiny but it has quite a history of the mines>> At one time it was a busy place:
I went to school there from 1943 to 1948 then moved back to Torontn>>

Hi John,

I didn’t mean my article to be totally inclusive of every ghost town… but over the years, it’s gotten a lot of attention. Like you, many people mention communities that didn’t appear in the 2009 blog and every time I get an email from someone, I’m reminded how important it is to share our history.

The following article from the Toronto Globe & Mail mentions Irondale and some of the other communities that were once going concerns, largely due to the IB & O railway:

Many Fished From Windows Of the Train
Special to The Globe and Mail

Bancroft, March 10, 1960—This is not Bancroft’s year. The Canadian national Railways is closing the 53.7 mile Irondale, Bancroft and Ottawa branch line from York River crossing to Howland Junction at the end of March. This news followed an announcement in January by officials of Canadian Dyno Mines that its property would be closed at the end of June. It is one of the three producers in the Bancroft uranium camp. Both the mine and railway decisions are the results of retrenching economies.

The mine’s closing will tighten the belts and crimp the pocket books of the come-lately mining people. But the end of the railway service touches the hearts of four generations of Haliburton district residents.

Not many old timers are left who recall the building of the IB & O in 1880. Their tales of early days on the Pike, however, and
its subsequent operation are folklore stuff that dim the derring-do of Casey Jones.

What Ontario railway, Haliburtonians ask, has a built-in 10 per cent grade with a two-mile terraced slope? Where else could passengers fish for bass from the colonial-style coach windows in the brawling Burnt River that coils close to the tracks in a dozen places? The counting of deer and moose by train crews is too commonplace to mention.

The east-west I B & O joins a north-south railway extension line at either end: the Howland Junction to Haliburton village line;
the York River to Wallace line. Lumbering and mining produced enough early revenue on the I B & O without extending the
line to Ottawa, as the original charter title suggests. During its busiest 60 years the I B & O helped spawn 11 settlements along
the line, all with unusual names: Furnace Falls, Irondale, Maxwells, Gooderham, Tory Hill, Ward, Wilberforce, Mumford, Highland Grove, Baptiste and Hughes. The terminal stations at York River and Howland are but small single buildings.

Mines along the line were opened and closed. Lumbering bared the forest and in recent years trucking has eaten in the rail haulage of pulpwood until there is little or no reason for the line being continued. A suggestion in the CNR Trainman News that the line could be used for weekend sightseeing trips is unlikely to be put into practice. The I B & O railway will make its last
trip on March 31.

Gooderham is built along Gooderham Lake, bordered on the south by the Irondale River and Pine Lake to the north, located on a now defunct railway line, the IB&O Railroad, which has been since converted into a trail network. Settled in 1873, its main industry has been logging. Today, M. W. Hunter Lumber Ltd. is the only major sawmill left operating in the County. In the 1950’s Gooderham had 3 General Stores, a Barber Shop/Confectionary Store and Mountain View Lodge. It was also home to the famous Skyline Dance Pavilion, where, on a Saturday night, people came from all over to enjoy dancing to a live band.

Tory Hill is so named because, it is written, when Alexander Niven, Liberal Candidate, came electioneering to the settlement, it did him little good as he received only one vote. In exasperation, he said to John Anderson, “Jack, you get the Post Office you have wanted for a long time and you had better name it Tory Hill!” John was appointed the first postmaster, and subsequently named the village Tory Hill.

Wilberforce was once a much larger town. It was established as “Pusey,” a station on the Irondale, Bancroft and Ottawa Railway (IB&O), and named for railway president Charles J. Pusey. This little railway had initially been built to carry iron ore from open pit mines in Irondale. With or without the railroad, Wilberforce was destined to become a settlement and is home to Ontario’s first Red Cross Outpost.

In the 20s and 30s Brown’s Mill operated in the area, using the IB&O to transport product via Ward’s Siding.

Highland Grove was once a thriving community that supported three stores, a cheese factory, a blacksmith shop, two schools and two churches. Beginning in 1890 the IB&O railway served the transportation, supply and communication needs of Highland Grove’s residents and businesses (the hamlet’s first telephone was installed at the railway station). A Post Office first opened in 1897. Elmer Hughey, one of the earlier postmasters explained that Highland Grove was so named because it boasted the highest point of elevation in the County. On one side of a nearby hill, water flows in the direction of Haliburton and on the other toward Bancroft’s York River.


Hughes Mill or Hughes Siding was where logs were processed and shipped via the rail depot once located on Baptiste Lake’s south shore. It is currently the location of Baptiste Lake Marina. When the IB & O Railway reached Baptiste Station, the William Hughes Mill opened on the lower basin of the lake, it became the Jennings and Kin Mill in 1914… the Jennings & Bailey Mill in 1914 and in 1921, Whitney Martin joined the firm. Bailey bought out Jennings and Bailey moved to Haliburton to start a mill. Martin and his brother, Garfield purchased the company and formed Martin Brothers Lumber Company, in 1930.


William Mulcahey was the first non-aboriginal resident on Baptiste Lake. He owned much of the property that is currently known as the village. His beautiful home is now the main lodge at Birch Cliff Lodge.

By 1900 the IB&O railway had a stop at the shoreline on the south shore of Baptiste Lake, on his property. By 1904, tourists were coming to see the village. Mulcahey built a general store on the hill overlooking the train station. He provided a dining room for loggers, trainmen and travelers and boarding rooms above the store. He built boxcar cabins nearby for overflow guests. He sold the store in 1917, to Hiram and Elizabeth Grant. The Grants, and their daughter Mabel ran the store and post office for years before selling it to Bruce Montgomery in 1984. Bruce and his wife, Roberta, operated Grants Inn until 2001. The store was demolished by the new owners George and Susan Poulton, who constructed a new building in its place. It has changed hands, again, since.

The first church was built in 1920 on property donated by Mr. Neil Bowen on the hill but it was too large with a very high ceiling and difficult to heat in the winter. The yard was okay for horse and buggy but not suitable for cars. In 1942, St Matthew’s was constructed on property donated by Mrs. Hiram Grant. The windows, floors, pulpit and chairs, wainscoting, pulpit railings, box-stove, furnace and bell were taken from the first engine (the Old Mary Anne) to run on the IB & O Railroad.

In 1961, a church hall was added, connected to the main building.

The lake was originally known to the pioneers as Long Lake and renamed Loon Lake. It was known to the native people at Kaijick Manitou meaning Cedar Spirit). It was renamed in honour of Algonquin Chief Jean Baptiste, who is believed to have been the first permanent resident, arriving from Lake of Two Mountains (near Montreal) in the early 1800s.

Howland Junction

Once a whistle stop on the Irondale, Bancroft and Ottawa Railway, this small village also housed a roundhouse to transfer train cars from the main CNR line to the I.B.&O. line.

Howland Junction was a flag stop on the Victoria Railway, the first stop north of Kinmount and originally called Kendricks- so named for an English remittance man (Sterne Kentdrick) who was an early settler along the creek that empties into the Burnt River at this locale.

Here, the Great IB&O met its terminus where it joined the Victoria Railway. Apparently, the remnants of the roundtable can still be found in the woods, near what is left of the old station.

The station burned in 1917 and was replaced with a small waiting room.

Howland Junction never had any stores, churches or schools… but rumour has it that Sterne Kendrick may have buried a hoard of gold somewhere along the creek.

Mumford (Harcourt) also known as Kennaway

Kennaway created its farms out of the piney soil of the Canadian Shield. Surrounded by forest and lakes, the village was relatively isolated in the area, approximately 10 km away from Wilberforce, a larger town to the southeast.

Irondale est. 1870

When iron was discovered in 1870, Irondale was actually known as Devil’s Creek. The community consisted of just a post office and a few residents.

The prospect of iron in the district was attractive to a Toronto lawyer by the name of Short, who opened the Victoria Iron Mine in 1875. He ran out of money in short order, pardon the pun.

In 1878, a second Toronto investor, M Miles, an Irishman, too over. He formed the Snowdon Iron Mine Company, building six and three-quarter miles of single track which ran from Howland (north of Kinmount) to Irondale, on the south shore of the Burnt River. He spent $60,000 and was able to ship several cars of ore before he went bankrupt.

Chicago business men, Parry & Mills spent $200,000 on a smelting furnace in what is now known as “Furnace Falls” and sold it to Charles Pusey before it burned down.

Irondale, may be considered a ghost town by some today, but was once the site of a large iron-mining operation and the focus of various roads and railroads. Charles Pusey built the Irondale Church ( in 1887 or 1889 depending on which account you read) for his wife, at 1019 Elm Rd, just off Salerno Lake Rd . In 1901 it was donated to the community by railway president Charles Pusey. It was sold to the St John’s Anglican diocese for $50 in 1901.

Henry Stark Howland was an American who arrived in Canada around 1840. He was a founding director of Canadian Bank of Commerce then 1875 first president of Imperial Bank of Commerce —ironic twist, both banks later merged as the Canadian Imperial Bank of Commerce in 1960. Henry
partnered with Charles Pusey on some mining sites and the railroad promotion and construction.

HAND CAR BEAT TRAIN BY HOURS TO STATION Impatient Passenger Preferred Travel By Man-Power
Toronto Star Tuesday, April 16, 1935—

The Irondale, Bancroft and Ottawa railway, which runs from here through Haliburton county to Bancroft, met with the crowning indignity of its career on a recent trip. West of Howland Junction a coach jumped the track and was put back on with the aid of passengers. Reaching Tory Hill,
the engine developed a bad cough and finally a cylinder gave out. The drew started to coax it on. This was too much for one passenger. He sighted an assistant road foreman on his hand-car a short distance up the track and reportedly jumped from the train and hopped on the car. The train was five hours later; the hand-car arrived two hours earlier.

 Permalink 08/28/16 @ 18:39